The Journal of History     Winter 2008    TABLE OF CONTENTS


Interview with Kathleen Sullivan (Part Four)

Everything in life is a circle.

A pentagram painted on the ground.

Circles can rape.

Circles can hide.

Circles can take you for a long painful ride.

- from Circles, by "Gina," age 10

Here's the final part of my interview with Kathleen Sullivan, survivor of cult ritual abuse and mind control. (The first three parts can be read here, here and here.)

I want to thank Kathleen very much for this. The intelligence and integrity she brings to bear upon what should be inconceivable experiences contribute much to our understanding of a difficult, and urgent, subject.

You can read more from Kathleen on her website, and in her book Unshackled: A Survivor's Story of Mind Control.

In Unshackled, Kathleen mentions an elder statesman, "master hypnotist" and paedophile she calls "Lucian," who obtained ownership of several of Kathleen's alter-states while she was still a teenager.

Could you tell us something of "Lucian," and the Luciferian beliefs he shared with you?

Lucian is highly regarded within the ranks of the Illuminati, although his popularity with the public has definitely waned in the past several years. He is a former DC-level politician who, due to the circumstances of his birth, cannot become President. For that reason, and because he appears to have an extreme, life-long need to wield power and control everyone and everything around him, he has operated in the background of almost every administration since at least the 1970s. Extremely wealthy, he perversely enjoys entrapping and blackmailing politicians and using the "evidence" of their indiscretions to continue to blackmail them throughout their careers. He especially likes to entrap politicians who claim to be born-again Christians. He told me, more than once, that they are all "hypocrites" and that he is determined to prove that.

He is also not above doing more ugly things to people who get in his way or cause problems for him. The last time I saw him, shortly after Clinton became President, "Lucian" informed me that when "they" have total power over our government (whoever "they" are), he'll have me back with him as his "pet."

Concerning the Luciferian beliefs that Lucian taught me: as a person who did not come from a Christian family, Lucian seemed to be primarily interested in the Old Testament. He told me that he and other Luciferians consider Jesus to have been a usurper, in that Jesus stole Lucifer's rightful position as the true son of God. In a Yin/Yang way, he stated that while Lucifer was thrown down to rule the earth, he has become known as Satan, the evil one, to most people. But Lucian and his associates know him as Lucifer, the light-bearer. This is why they prefer the word, "Illuminati." The "illumined ones." He, and others like him, have grandiose schemes to develop a one-world religion and one-world government that would originally pretend to tolerate Christianity, but would eventually have all Christians either convert to their more global religion, or face ugly consequences. But of course, Lucian - who is a flaming pedophile - is also convinced that they will be able to convince the masses that adult/child sex should be legalized.

Lucian was one of the few members of Illuminati who seemed to truly hate Christians with a passion. I don't know how that happened.

Like the others with whom he worshipped, he called the sun, "Ra," and stated that the sun's light, when it comes into our bodies, transforms us to be more like that top God. At one location, they had a wall made of round crystals at least the size of golf balls. They believed that they could stand inside that wall and that the sunlight would somehow be concentrated by the crystals and speed their transformation. He stated that he and others like him would transform into Godlike beings that would rule the world and universe. He also mentioned something I still think is extremely odd, because I've not heard of it from any other source. He talked about what he called "Saint Peter's Net." He stated that as godlike beings, they would form a "net" and capture the energy of others who die and use their spirit-energy to become even more godlike. (In a way, this reminds me of cannibalism and ingestion of blood by some occultists in rituals, to gain the life force of their newly deceased, or dying, victims.)

Some of the Illuminati wives of politicians I was ordered to "worship" with, as a slave, included Greco-Roman religious traditions in their daytime rituals. Forced female-female and adult-child sex was often perpetrated at their rituals. At each of their rituals, at least some of the wives would also have sex with each other. They did not believe in cannibalism or drinking blood. Instead, (this is gross, sorry), they drank semen from the men, after it had been processed somehow to "purify" it. They believed it would also increase their energy. I didn't.

Lucian, who often gave my father orders, was - like my father - since at least the 50's, closely aligned with Nazi immigrants who were brought to the US by the OSS/CIA and U.S. Army. Like my father, Lucian was also into Gnosticism, and truly seemed to believe that by physically suffering and depriving himself of certain pleasures (excluding sex with children) he would become more spiritually godlike and elevated. That didn't seem to keep him and Dad from tormenting and depriving their victims, however. Perhaps they failed to realize that they were also making us spiritually stronger, if their beliefs were true.

Did you first hear the name "Maitreya" from Lucian?


Did anyone else in the network speak of Maitreya to you?

Lucian was one of extremely few persons in the Illuminati who talked with me, instead of to me. But he only did this when I was alone with him. All of the others seemed to view me as an object, a bought-and-paid-for slave who was of no importance, other than what I could do for them. So, to make a long answer shorter, I have no memory of any of the others discussing Maitreya with me. I have since learned, however, that Lucian has strong connections to Lucis Trust, and so does Maitreya.

According to Lucian, what's Maitreya's purpose?

First, more background about my experiences with Lucian. I am not claiming that anything that Lucian told me was true. He and the other people who believed they "owned" me did believe, however, that I would never be able to remember what occurred when I was in their presence - including what they said. I had what they referred to as "failsafe" programming. This means that, if all else failed, I was supposed to suicide when the memories started to emerge. Fortunately, I have had a succession of competent therapists who have kept me alive whenever suicide conditioning kicked in. (Usually, when I had to be hospitalized to keep me safe until I worked through the program, I was diagnosed as having "major depression with suicidal ideations.")

Because I was considered "failsafe," and because Lucian was a master hypnotist who was proficient in mind control, he seemed quite confident that I would never remember him, let alone talk about what he told me. As a pedophile and abuse survivor (I can't go into that further), he seemed to have great difficulty socializing comfortably with other males. This may have been one of the reasons why he, unlike most of the other slave-owners, chose to "teach" me, from my teenage years on, what he believed was really going on in the world and in politics, and even in specific politicians' lives. This included "their" plans for Maitreya.

He basically told me that Lucis Trust is really a springboard for the Illuminati's eventual creation of a one-world religion. He stated that they were using Maitreya, who Lucian said was a master hypnotist and was already performing documented faked "miracles," to convince the "masses" that Maitreya was the second coming of Jesus. Lucian and his associates sometimes discussed the possibility of using other smoke-and-mirror techniques, including holographs in the sky, to convince the "cattle" (he had serious disdain for anyone "lower" than himself, socially) that Jesus had returned, and that other parts of the Bible's Book of Revelation were also occurring.

Lucian said that if "they" were successful, then those among the masses who believe in the rapture would give up everything and just sit and wait for it to occur. He said that those people would be "easy pickings."

He also said that Maitreya was being mentioned as the possible figurehead for the new one-world religion, which they hoped to center in Rome. Again, these were things he said over a decade ago. I don't know how much of it, if any, was true - at least to him.

Do you believe all the perpetrators are genuine occultists, or are some "agnostic," and merely using occult symbology to traumatize their victims?

I think that you have to look at each perpetrator on an individual basis.

My father, whose Welsh father was a Druid and proud of it, rebelled against his father for a while by rejecting the Druid rituals and instead looking to the writings of Aleister Crowley and the teachings of Luciferian Nazi immigrant doctors and scientists. Eventually, Dad included a few of Anton LaVey's teachings, although he didn't seem too impressed with LaVey. Dad also incorporated some Druid rituals and teachings.

Even though Dad did seem to believe in such teachings, he attended Christian churches regularly - Lutheran, Southern Baptist, and Methodist. He was a singer in the choirs, a lay leader, and a Sunday school teacher. (He preferred teaching youths, go figure.) So, my father was a genuine occultist who used Christianity as his cover. And yet, he was also a methodical and manipulative control addict who became quite adept at using trauma-based mind control on me and other children. And he thoroughly enjoyed using the occult trappings to terrorize, intimidate, and torture us. My father basically was the whole package.

(One person who responded to a previous part of this interview fluffed me off because I wrote that when I was a child, my father was a high priest. I need to clarify that I do not give that title any importance. My father was extremely narcissistic and grandiose. He was big into control, and also craved attention. I believe this is why, instead of submitting to another local occult leader, Dad started his own little group in Reading, Pennsylvania. He demanded total obedience from the members. Those who bucked his authority sometimes paid the ultimate price, and were used as "examples" to keep the rest of us "in line." I learned those lessons very well. In my mind, my father was both God and the worst monster on earth. I have no doubt that there may be thousands of self-identified "high priests" who operate small cults throughout the United States and Canada. Because Satanism has been so thoroughly infiltrated by fake occultists, it's really not that big of a deal anymore to be called a "high priest.")

I have met other sadistic perpetrators who clearly did not believe in the occult, and yet were quite adept in using occult teachings and ritual implements, stone altars, etc. to terrorize, control, and torture victims. There is a considerable network of such cell groups operating in and around Cobb County, Georgia. Another large network of cell groups reportedly operates east of Chattanooga under the cover of a specific religious denomination. Like the Aryan network in Cobb County, the Tennessee network does not reportedly take its occult practices seriously. However, the practices are used - in a mafia-like fashion - to intimidate and frighten even outsiders into silence.

I personally have gotten to the point where the occult is no longer a big issue to me. My biggest concern is that groups of sadistic adults are meeting together to terrorize, group rape, torture, and even kill precious children and other humans in the most horrific ways. Some of these groups of psychopathic adults also run lucrative underground businesses that include: manufacturing and selling illegal drugs, buying and selling children, creating and selling illegal pornography (including "kiddy porn"), forcing child slaves to "sexually service" others. (This is known as Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children.)

No child - no human - should ever have to experience one minute of the horrors that many of these victims endure (if they can) day after day, week after week, year after year, with no hope of ever being freed. My many horrific experiences with such groups - both as a child and as a dissociated adult - would make the atrocities at Abu Ghraib pale in comparison.

Since going public, have you been subjected to harassment and threats?

Of course. Here are some examples.

While I was in the early stages of recovery and was still severely dissociated, I freaked out when I left my therapist's office and stopped at a discount store that I'd never gone to before, and was specifically paged over the intercom - I guess to let me know that I was under surveillance. Of course, when I went to where the message directed me, no one was there. Oftentimes, I would go to the post office to see if there was mail in our box, or I would go to our regular grocery store, and a cult member would be waiting there for me, to give me a verbal "message." ("If you do ____, we will _____...")

On one occasion, I went to a library I'd never been to before, to research a corporation that employed some of the perpetrators. Soon, a man sat down next to me, insisted on my telling him which company I was researching, and told me - in recognizable coded language - that if I continued that research, I'd be killed.

On another occasion, I entered our Atlanta home via our back deck and found a mini-ball - a relic from the Civil War - lying in front of the door as a message that a specific cult member from Cobb County had stopped by. (He still sells such relics.)

One time, when a self-identified deprogrammer visited our house, a military helicopter nearly landed on our roof. I walked outside, smiled big, waved, and said, "Hi!" as the men inside the copter sat stone-faced, staring at me. Our home was not in an air path, and the copter was VERY close to the top of our two-story roof.

I was also approached by perpetrators in public. Each time, they talked nicely and smiled the whole time as if we were best of friends. Each time, I froze in terror. Some would put their hand on my shoulder, which was enough to put me into a total trance state. They were always very careful to do things that seemed quite benign, so that if I complained to anyone, I would appear to have the problem, not the perpetrators. (I've since learned that this is a common technique used to terrorize and intimidate victims of this kind of abuse.)

The worst form of harassment during my earlier stages of recovery was when fairly young children - always a different one, a male or female - would call our home late at night, specifically ask for one of my alter-states by name, and then deliver an adult message to that alter-state in code that that alter-state could understand. The calls always came shortly before a traditional occult ritual night, in which a child would probably be killed as the group's "sacrifice." The children relayed the messages, regardless of who answered the phone. As a result, both my husband and protective teenaged child were quite angry. I repeatedly had to beg them not to fuss at the children - they were just doing what they were told. Each of those messages was spoken by the children in a very flat tone; I still have one of them on tape. Those harassing calls were hardest for me, emotionally, because I was tormented in knowing that those children were still being used by the perpetrators and there was nothing I could do to help them - especially if they were chosen for the next ritual sacrifice.

Another form of harassment and threats in the form of "concerned" individuals who claimed to have helped other survivors, and expressed their desire to help me, too. I would relax my guard after a while and believe they were genuinely concerned. They would influence me to trust them enough to regularly report to them, what was going on in my life. When they got me dependent on them for what to think and believe, and influenced me to rely on them and cut off my regular support system, then they would start giving me orders. The threats and harassment came when I realized they were bad news, and refused to obey or allow them to be a part of my life anymore. One person, who had offered to edit my book for me at no cost, was such a person. A couple who still live in our small community did the same; the wife became my counselor at school and at home; even when she acknowledged that her first husband (now deceased) was a brother of a former head of the NSA, I continued to trust her. It wasn't until I saw a blank CIA employment application on a laptop a friend of her husband had given her, that I had enough sense to stay the hell away from both of them.

There were others, like Mark Phillips (CIA), who were also sent into my life to drain me financially, again separate me from my support systems, get me totally dependent on them, get into my head to troll for hidden information, get all of my documentation, and then - when they didn't have any more use for me - dropped me like a hot potato, telling me that everything I told them was fabricated, that I was psychotic. I cannot tell you how dangerous those times were for me. They turned me against everyone who cared about me, leaving me no one to go to after they dumped me. Those were the times I was willingly suicidal. If not for my very patient and forgiving husband, I would not have survived.

The worst thing that was done to me, that I fully remembered starting that very night, was when I was group raped at the Hartsfield Airport in Atlanta in October, 1997 - two days after the end of a conference on mind control. It took the group of spook perps a lot of manipulating to get me into the below-ground room near one of the elevators. It was a horrific couple of hours. Unfortunately, my husband was at home in Chattanooga, and nobody was expecting me for hours. The worst part was that one of my male relatives, who became a mini-Dad from hell, was one of the rapists. He's still too dangerous and way too connected for me to name. And again, it was one of those situations where after everyone had their jollies with me, and I found myself in a daze, wandering around the concourse, with no awareness that I'd just lost several hours - how in the world could I have proven it was done to me, when I couldn't even remember? All I knew was that a certain part of my anatomy was burning horribly, and I found that quite odd. Fortunately, I had a therapist at the time who took emergency late-night phone calls. A bunch of alter-states that had come out, or been summoned out, at the airport room, told her - in broken sequence - what had been done to me. When I was raped and my life threatened in the room, I was told that they (a former Directorate of Operations employee and his two goons and my male relative) "had" to "do this to" me because I had named two politicians with CIA ties, in my CKLN radio interview, several weeks earlier. One of the male onlookers in the room also gave me the message that they were "not happy" about a novel, MK, that I had finished in the past month and had shared with several survivors.

Before the airport "reprogramming session" was over, the men - all hard-core spooks - left the room, and an older MKULTRA psychiatrist/programmer entered. Because I'd been thoroughly traumatized, it was easy for him to hypnotically insert two new sets of suicide commands in my mind. In other words, if one set of commands didn't work, the other should be successful. I believe he did it to keep me from ever being able to talk about him and the terrible things he had done to me, starting when I was a young child.

Later on, when the command sequences started kicking in mentally, I was again fortunate to have help from mental health professionals who understood how to dismantle suicide programming, and obviously survived. Best of all, the old bastard died several years after the assault, reportedly of cancer.

I'm sharing this specific instance with you, even though it is still very difficult for me to write about, to help you to understand that there are levels of intimidation and threats. Usually, when a victim starts to figure things out, the perps will use seemingly innocuous techniques to intimidate us, such as whispering veiled messages in public settings or by sending in (or having us referred to) "concerned" individuals who know how to "help" us. Usually, nothing more than that ever has to be done to us, to keep us silent. But when we keep squawking, they might still pull in the big guns. Since 10/97, more people were sent in on me, one by one. I started noticing certain behavioral patterns among them (sociopaths can only fake it so far), and stopped allowing them into my life. If something odd does occur now, I don't freak out. Instead, my reaction is, "Oh well, there's another one. These people need to get a REAL LIFE!"

Since you've been in recovery, have you ever received words of remorse or encouragement from people within the network?

There is one retired military officer ("Poppa" in my book) who I first met with, clandestinely, in 1985. And not by choice - not at first. I didn't trust anyone, so why should I believe he had become a better person? Over time, he became primarily responsible for helping me to gradually be extracted from the Aryan network, centered in Cobb County, that had local control over me. During our first extensive clandestine meeting in a hidden set of rooms and corridors under an Air Force base, Poppa expressed strong remorse for his earlier actions as a part of the mind-control perp system. His words seemed to be genuine. I also saw a new softness in his face that I'd never seen before. The things he told me, and admitted to me, in that and other meetings, were marvelously healing. He became a new and very positive role model for me, because - in the face of great and dangerous odds - he seems to have put his duty to his country first and has - through his own clandestine network of former military men under his command - helped me and other victims (particularly groups of children) to become free.

Because he knew I was used to memorizing certain phrases and living by them, he told me that in spite of all the technology that has been used to control the minds of victims, his people have discovered a technique that inevitably breaks the programming down, without a need for any "deprogramming" sessions. Again, his face was soft when he told me that their formula, in working with freed victims who were programmed "Delta" assassins, was: "compassion, caring, and kindness." Whenever I met with Poppa and his people over the next few years, the effect of being in their presence was just as he had predicted: like water pouring through a cave filled with hidden nooks and crannies (symbolizing the most deeply hidden mental programs), their willingness to show me genuine concern and kindness short-circuited many of the mental programs that - herein lies the irony - had originally been installed by sociopathic people who were absolutely incapable of demonstrating certain emotions. Poppa and his people gave me what I had starved for, all my life. They resurrected my shriveled soul. Whereas I had previously drawn myself, all my life, as a tree totally gutted by heart rot, I now drew myself as a tiny seedling - still much to learn, but I was already learning what was most important. Empathy, caring, kindness, compassion. Most important for me is that I have also now developed those parts of my humanity. I no longer have a heart of icy cold stone. I care about others; I give a damn.

Is it perhaps better for the safety of survivors, that most people still refuse to accept that such things could happen?

Although it may be better for the immediate safety of some survivors, ongoing denial of the existence of these crimes causes serious problems for many more survivors. Especially since the False Memory Syndrome Foundation backlash occurred, and FMSF-assisted lawsuits were successfully brought against several mental health professionals, it's been harder for survivors to find therapists who are willing to help them. Survivors are also more likely, partly due to managed care, to be misdiagnosed as having "bipolar disorder" (the new trend) because it's cheaper to dope them up to level out their rage and bouts of manic energy generated by old emerging emotions and memories, than to pay for years and years of therapy. It's a new band-aid approach.

Public denial is also a big problem for survivors who are so disabled - mentally, emotionally, and/or physically - by the horrors they have survived, that they desperately need financial help. Unfortunately, it's now harder than ever to qualify for U.S. Social Security Disability benefits. If a survivor was never functional enough to hold a job, that survivor cannot qualify for SSD, anyway. In such a situation, the survivor can apply for SSI (Supplemental Security Income). Such benefits, however, pretty much leave such survivors in poverty. As a result, they, and other impoverished survivors who do not even have SSI, do not have sufficient resources to improve their lives and make themselves safer - basic things like deadbolt locks, emergency cell phones and the like. They also will have a harder time obtaining therapeutic mental help.

Another related problem occurs within the U.S. court systems. I have been in contact with several female survivors who married perpetrators who had enough resources - including financial support from other cult members - to gain full custody of the children away from the mothers. Some of the mothers were even advised that if they started telling the judge that the children were being ritually abused, the mothers would be viewed as mentally ill. Those mothers who were already receiving help from mental health professionals were especially vulnerable to being discredited this way. Some of the mothers are in emotional agony nearly every day, frantic in the knowledge that the bizarre behaviors they see in their precious children, when they are "allowed" to visit with them, are probably a direct result of ongoing victimization. AND THERE IS NOTHING THEY CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Several mothers, and at least one father, who tried to protect their children from further abuse by snatching their children and running with them to other countries have been caught by the FBI, brought back to the US, charged with "kidnapping" their own children, and some have been incarcerated. Unfortunately, if the protective parent is put in prison, that parent becomes much less effective in providing strength and emotional support for the child(ren).

Perhaps the most detrimental, long-term effect of the public's ongoing denial is that children continue to be tortured, group raped, bought and sold, given for sex, and even killed. Even if we do not feel any concern for such children, we still must consider this: if the victims never get out of the underground criminal system, what can we expect from approximately half of them - based on current statistics - when they become adults? What is to stop them from doing unto others, what has been done unto them?

What's to stop some victims-turned-perpetrators from indiscriminately inflicting their volcanic rage - generated by days or years or even decades of unbearable pain, terror, hopelessness and helplessness - on us or our children? (Remember Timothy McVeigh?) Society may suffer harsh consequences if we continue to self-protectively turn our backs and stop our ears and pretend these victims don't exist; if we ignore their desperate, often-silent screams and prayers for help that - at least for now - never comes.

take a glass and raise it high

to those of us who won't

lay down and die

some of us beaten and abused

by those we loved

others by our government

still we won't lay

down and die

so take a glass

and drain it dry.

A Toast, by "vern."


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